[Phonoho]

What's in your wallet?
Alright, let's get it out of our system. It's still the same old song and dance (or is it a dog and pony show, what with mavericks and pit bulls?).

Sam Harris on Sarah Palin and Elitism | Newsweek Politics: Campaign 2008 | Newsweek.com

[dearest]

I wasn't going to comment on this (and reveal that I'm fairly politically ignorant), but I actually did read this whole article, so I think I will. I agree on a lot of points...but others are a little bit exaggerated. Look, I'm a Christian, I know the lingo. The quotations from Palin at her church don't point to extremism whatsoever, it was a pretty standard prayer. To call it "apocalyptic hysteria" is just a bit absurd. The fact that the author discounts Palin in part for her choice of religion seems to me rather intolerant. And to say that we shouldn't "place the most powerful military on earth at her disposal" solely because she is a Christian seems very...off. As for experience, though...yep, he's totally right. She would have no idea what she was doing if McCain expired and she was pushed into the presidency. But, unfortunately, I can't say much different for the other side. Obama doesn't exactly have much foreign policy expertise either, and I don't think even SuperAdministration! could deal with "nuclear proliferation, ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (and covert wars elsewhere), global climate change, a convulsing economy, Russian belligerence, the rise of China, emerging epidemics, Islamism on a hundred fronts, a defunct United Nations, the deterioration of American schools, failures of energy, infrastructure and Internet security" in one fell swoop. The election this year is most difficult for me on the basis of experience; no one seems to have enough of it to fit the job requirements...but then I don't know if anyone really does.

[superbum]

People who vote based on religious biased piss me off. If you look at the politicians who spout God's words lives you'll notice lives lived in contradiction to God's words and teaching.

Bible thumpers are all up in arms about whether somebody opposes abortion or not, in the end it doesn't really matter, it's not like they can stop the sale of coat hangers.

[Timmay]

Originally Posted by superbum

People who vote based on religious biased piss me off. If you look at the politicians who spout God's words lives you'll notice lives lived in contradiction to God's words and teaching.

Bible thumpers are all up in arms about whether somebody opposes abortion or not, in the end it doesn't really matter, it's not like they can stop the sale of coat hangers.

that's totally true. there's a reason why church and state are separate; it's so crazy shits don't try to rule the world under the name of god. It's not the 1300's anymore. the divine right of kings and theocracies don't exist anymore, and for a good reason

[Vince]

I may go off topic here but I saw something I didn't like. Dearest said "Russian belligerence". Really? I am from Greece, a country located near Russia and Georgia and in fatc many greeks live in Georgia. I don't want to point fingers here, but US media aren't too famous for promoting both sides. I don't know what they tell you it happened, but Georgia started the war. Russia was a bit to eager to reply, I'll admit that, but Russia is an internation power now and to put it simply, it will not take shit from anyone. Not Ukraine, not Georgia, not even US. (Some may say, that the US were behind Georgia's attack "testing" the Russians. I don't know about that.)

On topic now, I'll agree with mr.superbum and mr.timmay. There's a scandal here, threatening the government, concering the church. A certain monastery (we have lots in Greece), was somehow given 41 million euros (make the conversion to dollars) from the governement, in a time where there's an internation economic crisis. That money were invested in companies etc. Talk about false preachings...

[Ryankia]

I say its all poppycock and ignore it. There is no 'lesser of two evils' here. We just have Mr. and Mrs. Stupid on both sides.

[jerH]

Where to begin...? I don't rabidly hate Sarah Palin, but I think she's woefully under qualified for the job. Her Christian beliefs don't scare me in and of themselves, but when she says things like "the Iraq war is a task from God" (I don't think I have that quote exactly right, but close enough) I do get quite worried. I've pretty much entirely lost respect for John McCain, which is sad because I used to think he was a pretty decent guy. It's been almost painful to watch him turn himself into that which he used to rail against. Picking Ms. Palin was pretty much the last straw, as it was such a blatant act of pandering, and in his case the VP is probably quite a bit closer to the Oval Office than usual.

Dearest said "Russian belligerence". Really?

She was quoting the article, but let's face it, Russia has been a bit belligerent. I don't mean that as an insult, like "who do they think they are?" but just as a statement of fact. Let's not pretend that the US hasn't been that way as well. Russia has been down for a couple of decades, and now that they're flush with oil and gas money they're tired of getting sand kicked in their face. What happened in Georgia is Russia a) letting off a lot of steam over the fact that they couldn't stop Kosovo's independence and b) being legitimately concerned about NATO expanding to their border. How would the US have felt if Canada had joined the Warsaw Pact? That said, I think it's letting Russia off the hook way to easy to say that Georgia started the war. Remember, South Ossetia was (is?) within Georgia's border. Not a single shot was fired on Russian territory. Imagine the citizen's of Nuevo Laredo (in Mexico, on the border with Texas) started clamoring to secede from Mexico and join the US. The US government then began issuing American passports to these people, and arming them to fight Mexican forces. And when the Mexican Army tried to move in to re-establish control, American tanks rolled into Mexico and went halfway to Mexico City. Hardly seems like the US could claim the moral high ground....

Anyway, back to the original issue. I'm squarely in the Obama camp. I don't think he's the political equivalent of the messiah, but I do think John McCain is wrong on a lot of issues. I do have to disagree with Ryankia on this one though. John McCain 1) wants to make tax cuts for the wealthy permanent at a time when the government's tax receipts don't come close to meeting its obligations 2) literally said that the answer to our health care problems is to deregulate along the lines of the deregulation he's spent his career championing for Wall Street (how's that working for ya?) 3) has a horrible record on supporting investment in alternative energy and would rather devote resources to new domestic drilling ("drill baby drill"? c'mon?!) than to getting this country off of fossil fuels.

I'll shut up after quoting one sobering statistic that says a lot about just how coo coo this whole situation is...a non-partisan analysis center (which one escapes me at the moment) studied the proposals of both candidates and concluded that Obama's would add $3+ trillion to the national debt. They concluded that McCain's would add $5+ trillion. Pick your poison...

[Ryankia]

JerH, I wasn't for or against anyone in my comment, why'd you say that? I don't like either candidate. What you say about McCain won't make me sweat, nor about Obama.

I actually heard the amounts were the other way around, JerH, just an FYI. (thought you should know)

[jerH]

Originally Posted by Ryankia

JerH, I wasn't for or against anyone in my comment, why'd you say that? I don't like either candidate. What you say about McCain won't make me sweat, nor about Obama.

I actually heard the amounts were the other way around, JerH, just an FYI. (thought you should know)

Sorry if I offended...I really shouldn't discuss politics I didn't take it that you were for or against anyone, rather that you were pretty much indifferent between the two. And my point was that I don't think that indifference is well founded because I think McCain is wrong about a, b, c, etc. I should have caveated that this is just my opinion.

As for the numbers, I'm 99.9% positive I have them right, as the difference was attributable to McCain's making the Bush tax cuts permanent while Obama would let them expire in 2010.

Anyway, I'm not a political evangelizer by nature...please don't be mad at me!

[Phonoho]

BP has gone to great lengths to cut Russia out of the loop with this pipeline. Maybe Palin, with a high-powered scope attached to her moose rifle, can keep an eye on the region from the cold comfort of her backporch.

TOM BROWN - STAFF
SOURCE: BRITISH PETROLEUM

[Ryankia]

Sorry if I offended...I really shouldn't discuss politics I didn't take it that you were for or against anyone, rather that you were pretty much indifferent between the two. And my point was that I don't think that indifference is well founded because I think McCain is wrong about a, b, c, etc. I should have caveated that this is just my opinion.

As for the numbers, I'm 99.9% positive I have them right, as the difference was attributable to McCain's making the Bush tax cuts permanent while Obama would let them expire in 2010.

Anyway, I'm not a political evangelizer by nature...please don't be mad at me!

Well, but Obama isn't your picture of perfection either, by any marginal means. They are both largely faulty in various but different ways. Hence my indifference. McCain may be wrong, but so is Obama. Pick your poison, I guess.

[Rain]

Fact is McCain has "agreed with the president more than 90% of the time" and the presidents decisions has sent our country into a down spiral. Not a lot of people can take "more of the same" as they say, included my family. Also the economy of our planet is important to me, and when Palin got up there and did her speech I didn't hear one word about the economy, about health care, about jobs, about education, about middle class, clearly spoken by Joe Biden "The silence was deafening" speech.
YouTube - MSNBC News: Joe Biden speech ''The silence was deafening''

When it comes down to it Obama is the much smarter choice to pick our country back up from the spiral that GWB inserted us into. That's where I stand, but hey, I can't even vote yet....

[Vince]

Something else, I forgot to mention, Greece supports Obama

[jerH]

Originally Posted by Vince

Something else, I forgot to mention, Greece supports Obama

Pretty much the entire civilized world supports Obama from the last international survey I read...too bad we can't get them all registered to vote.

[dearest]

Ahh, finally got back to this. Yep, thanks for point tht out JerH. As he said, I was quoting. Not my thoughts, the author's thoughts. And as for voting simply based on religion, I completely agree. If you're a christian (or any other religion) you shoudn't vote for a candidate solely on that basis. But of course it's a two way street. If a candidate holds religious views that you don't, you shouldn't discount them soley on that basis. That's what I was trying to say. ^_^

Ugh, I should just not talk about politics. Why is politics such a divisive subject in general?

[dearest]

Pretty much the entire civilized world supports Obama from the last international survey I read

I think I read that survey too. ^_^