[loosygoosy007]

...I was thinking about this a lot today. Our society is so corrupt, and it's a very scary thought. I have many thoughts and comments about society (as well as complaints), and I'm going to slam them into one essay.

I will first start with the media of our society. Starting with television, where will it be in twenty or so years? We have all kinds of profanity on television/movies, and people of all ages are seeing it when even the ratings tell you that there is profanity in them. How will the generation of the future be when they see all of this profanity? Will we all be speaking foul language and participating in more violence? Also, the music. Oh the music of today. Did you know that more than 70% of African-Americans drop out of high school? This is partly because of the music they listen to. Yes, I'm sure you know what kind of music I'm talking about. The rap music of today. The profanity and the discrimination/degrading of women. Will all women be treated inappropriately in the future? And, will we the next generation all drop out of school and commit violence because it is what they are seeing in music videos and hearing in their music?

Okay, second is abortion. I know that it's a very controversial topic, especially today. We are killing off the next generation. I'm not saying that I totally object to abortion, but I am saying that it should be done only when necessary. I mean, one out of three children are killed due to it, making millions of deaths each year. If this continues, we won't even have a generation eventually.

Third, and kind of connected to the second topic, is embryonic stem cell research. Another thing killing off the next generation. I know it's for scientific purposes, but is it really necessary? Most of the discoveries found through stem cell is from adults, so why must we kill innocent embryos just for science?

Next topic, the government. Alright, I'll admit, I'm not really keen on Bush right now. But, I'm not directly complaining about him. In the news lately, government officials have been found doing illegal things (one of them was found that wrote controversial e-mails to a teen). Should we really be trusting them? For all we know, they could have criminal backgrounds.

Finally, terrorism. The thought scares me out of my mind. Sadly, it's not getting any better. The US is currently at war with Iraq, yet there is still violence. Will it ever be solved, or will it continue to become worse? If you think about it, with all the disputes in our own country, we could start a war with ourselves, and the most powerful nation in the country could turn against itself. What will become of the US, and the rest of the world, for that matter? Will there be a final war and will we all cease to be united?

Many things worry me personally today with society. We live in a society so corrupt that we must be aware of all that is going on, and possibly what could go on in the future. We need to prepare ourselves and brace ourselves. The future is coming, but with a society that is so unpredictable, will we be ready?

Woah loosy, how much do you wanna cram in there? this is too much to argue about, lol

Media is a very funny thing. Unfortunately, with the growth of the internet, pretty much nothing is avoidable. Anyone can see anything they want, and to be honest, this doesn't bother me. If something offends someone, my only piece of advice is don't listen/watch. It's virtually uncontrollable, I don't think government has really much to do with that aspect. They can, to some extent, control what we see on TV, hear on Radio, due to all censoring and stuff, but this won't stop people seeing undesirable material on the internet. In fact I'd be lead to believe it encourages them.

Abortion, woah. This topic is too much for me now. I think it's already been discusses somehwere else. I'd rather not go into it until I found out more about it. The same with stem cell research I guess - but is this not research into finding cures/solutions to serious diseases? I don't much about this so don't have a go at me, but surely it's an important thing. Again, I don't want to go into this. These 2 topics should be separate.

Now, you say the government is corrupt. But you're very vague about it. What leads you to believe this? What evidence do you have to support this? What are the possible solutions? It's all very well saying it, but it has many implications. So I think you need to give more detail on your reasons for saying this.

Terrorism, errrr, again this has been discussed before.

You make some good debate points, and I have to agree with you, sometimes the future of our society can seem a little worrying. But I think you should have separated these arguments completely, its way too much to be cramming into one space, expecting us to discuss it all. Also, more detail for each of your arguments, you need to have some evidence and some good argumentative points.

[Lonely Stranger]

Oh boy [rubbing hands together]

You write:
>>I will first start with the media of our society. Starting with television, where will it be in twenty or so years? We have all kinds of profanity on television/movies, and people of all ages are seeing it when even the ratings tell you that there is profanity in them. How will the generation of the future be when they see all of this profanity? Will we all be speaking foul language and participating in more violence? Also, the music. Oh the music of today. Did you know that more than 70% of African-Americans drop out of high school? This is partly because of the music they listen to. Yes, I'm sure you know what kind of music I'm talking about. The rap music of today. The profanity and the discrimination/degrading of women. Will all women be treated inappropriately in the future? And, will we the next generation all drop out of school and commit violence because it is what they are seeing in music videos and hearing in their music?<<

I think that we, from time to time forget that "the media" is a business. I believe that it would be naive to believe that the media has "Truth" as it's only master. They are in business to make money, if a politician threatans their ability to do that, they will do everything in their power to keep him from office. They are not and will not be guardians of truth. That is and always will be our job.

Musicians and atheletes do not care about our children. They care about "more zeros" if acting like criminals draws more kids ... so be it, regardless of what the affect is on our kids. The job of being idols, and setting examples is ours. Sometimes (seemingly more and more) we will have to say "no" ... "you cannot have Air Jordans" .... "You cannot buy that Eminem CD". Parents must make decisions, be guardians. Too many parents want to be buddies and pals, want kids to be perpetually happy. If a child is raised properly, he or she will be brooding and unhappy about 20% of the time mostly because of some limit or responsibility imposed upon them.

>>Okay, second is abortion. I know that it's a very controversial topic, especially today. We are killing off the next generation. I'm not saying that I totally object to abortion, but I am saying that it should be done only when necessary. I mean, one out of three children are killed due to it, making millions of deaths each year. If this continues, we won't even have a generation eventually.<<

You will never get abortion reversed. NOW is too powerful and we as a nation are too ready to cowl to NOW's radical demands.

>>Third, and kind of connected to the second topic, is embryonic stem cell research. Another thing killing off the next generation. I know it's for scientific purposes, but is it really necessary? Most of the discoveries found through stem cell is from adults, so why must we kill innocent embryos just for science? <<

Stem cells can be harvested from umbilical cords and fetuses who die due to causes other than abortion. The potential benefits are too great to ignore. Do you know people affected by cancer? Altzhiemers? Parkinsons? Spinal injury?

>>Next topic, the government. Alright, I'll admit, I'm not really keen on Bush right now. But, I'm not directly complaining about him. In the news lately, government officials have been found doing illegal things (one of them was found that wrote controversial e-mails to a teen). Should we really be trusting them? For all we know, they could have criminal backgrounds.<<

My dad always used to say "Trust everyone ... but ALWAYS cut the cards!" I find that to be a valuable lesson.

>>Finally, terrorism. The thought scares me out of my mind. Sadly, it's not getting any better. The US is currently at war with Iraq, yet there is still violence.<<

The US is battling Al Quiada, not Iraq. It's like fighting cockroaches with a flyswatter, you might kill one, but 1000 will come to his funeral.

>>Will it ever be solved, or will it continue to become worse? If you think about it, with all the disputes in our own country, we could start a war with ourselves, and the most powerful nation in the country could turn against itself. What will become of the US, and the rest of the world, for that matter? Will there be a final war and will we all cease to be united?<<

We've been at war with ourselves forever. Loyalists vs Revoloutinaries, Rebs vs Unionists, Whigs vs Republicans, Republicans vs democrats, blacks vs whites. HELL this country was stolen from Native Americans. Revelations tells us that there will indeed be a final conflict.

[Bluejay]

My minor two cents: regarding the next generation, I don't think we have any concerns about the human race dying out anytime soon, unless it's due to overpopulation and the inability to sustain it. I don't want this to imply anything about abortion one way or the other; I'm just pointing out I think that there not being a next generation is a non-issue.

[Evrviglnt]

Every generation bemoans the slovenly face it sees in the mirror. It's disgust only increases when it sees the generation coming after it...

[RENA HANDS]

Informative, direct and well written.

[Lost Snail]

It is good to see people asking real questions about the world in which they find themselves. Unfortunately I can't really say I find your views too well informed.

Profanity has always been a part of day to day language, across the world, in any culture.

I remember when I was thirteen, I'd hear rappers etc swearing and I thought it was fun. I thought it was fun because it was taboo. It was as if I somehow knew a magic word that had this bizarre effect on adults. Now I'm nearly twenty, and I've learnt that whilst this language isn't 'wrong' as such (I find the application of a moral spectrum to compressions of air amusing), it does have its time and place, and shouldn't saturate one's general use of language. Far be it from me to use my own experience as a template for the norm, but isn't it possible that 'juevinile delinquents' will learn with maturity that it isn't that cool?

Let's say they don't. Is this really the fault of the language they hear on television? In that case, why do some who are subjected to absolutely the same shows and songs pick up the language and some don't? The fact that this occurs shows there must be some outside variable. Could it perhaps be the parents? Swearing on TV doesn't bother me. When I hear parents using foul language too often around their children, it bothers me.

However, there are those that are brought up being told that swearing is wrong. Not bad form, not harmful, but actually taboo. Yet they do swear, when they discover such profanities they swear like crazy. Why should this be? Perhaps fluctuating to the opposite end of the spectrum is just as bad when it comes to raising children. They are automatically going to be drawn to 'forbidden fruit'.

So, perhaps it doesn't make a diffierence how much swearing they hear on TV, perhaps it does, but whatever the answer it is only a small and ultimately negligible part of a larger problem- as stated above there has ALWAYS been swearing in day to day life. Perhaps parents should set a better example, or not be so 'hard-line'/coddling. Furthermore, it seems to be part of a growing trend of anti-intellectualism amongst the young which is far too great a topic to get into.

I was planning to discuss the other worthy questions you raised, but it seems I'm short of time. Basically, you're askng the right questions, but throwing the blame at the most obvious cause, which is almost always an effect in itself rather than a true, multi-faceted root of a problem. Dig a little deeper.

[Evrviglnt]

The young may cuss because of the thrill, but swearing is more common today from all quarters:young and old, male and female (women swearing shamelessly in public is a true sign of degradation ). The language a people use is a direct reflection on the respect they have for themselves and the world around them. If you constantly hear cussing on the television, in your music, on car stickers and billboards, your friends and acqaintances, it soon becomes normative and we devolve as a culture. The English language has a million ways to say the same thing; to find that four letter words are all our stunted minds can conjour says only bad things about us.

Then again intellectualism is a self anointed label used to separate one from another. Our universities are chock full of people who deride the common man because he has no degree. Universities are full of information, but you will not find wisdom there.

The young always thrash against the constraints society places on them - and angst is born in the rebellion against cultural mores and the religious strictures that seek to tame mankind and its lust for sex and violence. Society suffers when it no longer is allowed to sanction behavior it finds destructive, and that is happening now, where the 'first amendment' has gone from a guarantee of political expression to an unassailable license to offend.

Language is a good gauge of a civilization, it defines our limitations and limits our definitions. The causes for its descent into ignorance lie at the heart of the culture, and that is a long post indeed...

[Mike]

loosygoosy and Lonely Stranger, the U.S. caused the majority of terrorism itslef by arming groups like Al-Quaida and Taliban in Afganistan in the 80's becuase of their inexplicable hatred for socialism. I would also point out that thay gave Saddam permission (of a sorts) to commit the atricities he was so recently hanged for.

One thing you certainly missed with regands to corruption is that the current war is fuelled by oil. Oil! People are being killed by the Yanks and (to an extent) the British to fuel our cars!
It is not the islamic militants who started this war (although they dispically use their faith for bloodshed and commit atrocities) but U.S. itself.

Embryonic Stem Cell recearch is a beautiful thing, allowing us to make alot of peoples lives far better. The fact that already dead embryos are used is an acceptable fact and therfore I can't see any harm to it.

Are one in three baby deaths really due to abortion? I would question that fact, but if it is true it is a shocking figure and I agree with you that measures should be taken in non-nescarry cases.

Finally Evrvinglt you have an absolutly stunning turn of phrase both your posts are very eloquent and consise to an extent that I would mention this.

[Nephilim]

i always love hearing someone challenge the way we live. in this, most of your arguments, while they have all been heard before, offer some interesting insight. i think that there is passion behind what you say, so much that at times it seems you are too angry to fully support your topic. don't get me wrong, passion is key, but focus and evidence are also critical. finally, we completely agree about our current government. not once have i been so confident that any American could run this country better. also, the sheer lack of morality and professionalism. Congrats on a good, thoughtful essay.

[Corneac]

Hmmm...the abortion comment was unnecessary as jnabonne said:

I don't think we have any concerns about the human race dying out anytime soon, unless it's due to overpopulation and the inability to sustain it.

We're not going to die out any time soon. Also abortion is completely necessary.
- Women should have to the right to bear a child, or not bear a child. A women who is forced to bear a child by the law, is simply an incubator for an embryo, which disregards her as person in the eyes of the law. An embryo is not a person. The law should reflect this.
- Contraception is not 100% successful and so with the best laid plans unintentional and unwanted pregnancies will occur
- What about pregnancies due to rape? Or incestuous relationships?
- What about when pregnancies happen to people whoa are still children themselves? 11, 12, 13? Or even 14-17? Don't they have the right to abort the foetus?
- In some pregnancies it is definitively concluded that at birth the baby will die. Should the mother have to prolong her agony?
- What is the birth of the baby will kill the mother; does she have aright to protect her life over that of a bunch of tissue?

Sorry...you touched a nerve with your abortion comment. Nothing personal, just an issue that is close to my heart, in more ways than one...good essay though

Ok, now that's said lets not get into another debate regarding abortion please it's been gone through 2 or 3 times elsewhere

[Corneac]

Sorry...

[awelgraven]

I agree with Loosey's stance on abortion as listed in the essay. For that matter, I agree with most of your essay. Point(s) well made.

[Emense]

dude you are totally right. points well made

[tranquildrifter]

I don't want to sound rude right off the bat, but I fail to see why, through all you have said, society itself is corrupt. You have done a very good job at pointing a finger at many things that are harmful to society, but have proved little by the effort. What I do see is an indictment on the short-comings of the system in which we live generally. You mention 'the media,' which has rightly been described above as a business by Lonely Stranger, and a very clear product of 'the system.' You mention abortion (heaven forbid!) which is only a contention that 'the system' was never meant to handle and as such is doing very poorly with it. Then you throw out the government, 'the system' itself, which is only a rather peculiar grouping of political elites - but as elite as they maybe, they are still parts of the whole, parts of the very same system.

What you see as rampant corruption would, I think, be more properly understood as a very large and diverse population attempting to conform to a somewhat archaic mould. So far, the US has done well for itself - you don't become the richest most powerful nation on accident (or do you?). But don't get caught up thinking that our time is the only one that has had problems. This nation has, in fact, been crowded with all sorts of problems since the very beginning. Thanks to a very clever little 'system' it has managed these two-hundred some years to survive them (at times, just barely).

I would say, in a very, very general sense, 'the system' has persevered because of institutions (yes, I call it that) such as the First Amendment (sorry Evrviglnt). Not because licentious offending of the masses accomplishes anything in itself, but because it allows for severe juxtaposition. You can refer to JS Mill or Marx, whichever makes you more comfortable, but it is very important to realize that we move forward in this country when we see to very different views and then move toward one of them. The two-party system is built to function in this very way. If we only had democrats, they would always be right even when they are wrong. The reverse is true as well. Rap music? It is terrible. And as a black American who has spent a good deal of time trying to reconcile myself to my so-called race, I feel that it is an amazing step backward in so many respects. But. It is the radical, the outrageous, the blasphemous, that brings contrast to an issue. I would say don't be so worried about the government being corrupt, worry instead the day that democrats and republicans stop fighting. It is that fight against what you see as wrong (dems if you are a rep. reps if you are a dem. Rap if you are an Elvis man and country if you like Dr. Dre.) that eventually results and moderate policy, moderate understandings.

So what am I saying to you? The issues that you point at are certainly issues, but they are issues to be subsumed in the future. You think rap is doing terrible things to society, then one must raise up an alternate flag for other to follow in order to contend with it. If the media is corrupt (remember it operates like a business) then a new demand must rise up for change. Don't get caught up thinking that there is going to be some way to legislate the negative elements out of the system... because there isn't. And if we try, it ends very badly - prohibition, for example. Which brings me to abortion.

Abortion is a question that was never meant to be dealt with by law. It simply wasn't. But it serves as a modern day example of what happens when the law attempts to work in areas that it was not designed for. Laws are meant to govern reasonable things (that is understandable) by reasonable means. They are to be rational and logical. They, by their very nature, do not function when confronted with irrational men and women. This is important when considering abortion because, and I know you will all hate this, attachment to human life (or the idea of human life) is an irrational one. That is not to say that someone is stupid for valuing another life, or that the attachment to it is not real. What is meant is that the attachment itself, the feeling of love or identity or connection, is not one that is established by reason. It is very similar, though distinct from, religious identities. Faith is not a reasoned decision, it is a felt power. How many times have our dear philosophers and theologians told us that faith through reason is no faith at all (indictment on organized religion... sorry)? This is the same process by which the pro-lifers find themselves valuing the life of the fetus. I am not saying that it is wrong to do so, but do not lie to yourself and others and say that it is a feeling you achieved through reason. Back to the law. Laws, which are nothing more than logistical forms by which we maintain order, are not meant to handle subjects that are not based upon the same logic and reasoning. Anyway... this will probably always be a political issue with a great deal of salience until we either all die in a nuclear holocaust, or until our population reaches the billion mark.

I didn't mean for this to go on so long. The point of the story is - be careful pointing a finger anywhere and saying "post hoc ergo propter hoc," because almost always that is not the case. You are right to be worried, you are right to question, but remember, the times that try men's souls where then, are now, and will be tomorrow. That we cannot change. But for those of you who can maintain some degree of faith in this country, place you stock in the Constitution and pray that it does not collapse. It is archaic, we can only hope.

[angel]

i totally agree that the society is corrupt i totally agree with all your points

[Lost Snail]

Originally Posted by Evrviglnt

Then again intellectualism is a self anointed label used to separate one from another. Our universities are chock full of people who deride the common man because he has no degree. Universities are full of information, but you will not find wisdom there.

Very few of my fellow students deride the common man because he has no degree, though I have felt some unreasoned resentment towards those with degrees by those without. As for intelletualism being a self-annointed label, how else would you define someone who seeks knowledge in relation to someone who doesn't?

It is true that there are some elitists who would like to believe that their 'intellectualism' is a sacred thing reserved for few, but generally people who would consider themselves as 'intellectual' would like nothing better than to have everyone else be 'intellectual' too. Unfortunately, there are a huge amount of people who seem completely uninterested in expanding their knowledge. It is also a fact that most people who bother to work for a degree are interested in expanding their knowledge, but this is not a rule, just as plenty of people who don't have degrees are intelligent and learned.

Besides, plenty of my fellow students just want to get drunk and party and probably haven't read a book in years.